How To Increase Your Cashflow By Becoming A Steady Trader | Cashflow Hacking Ep #23 Serge Berger
Serge Berger, CEO and founder of The Steady Trader, joins us on the podcast to discuss how trading consistently and within steady limits is the true key to unlocking longterm cashflow. As an entrepreneur and experienced Wall Street trader, Serge has been exposed and traded in some of the most volatile markets in recent history, and now shares his experiences with Casey to help all day traders find success through consistency in the market today.
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Welcome to the Cashflow Hacking Podcast. We're on a mission to help people increase their cash flow. Well the steady paycheck of a 9 to 5 job may provide you a sense of security, it will never bring you true financial freedom and abundance. We will teach you the tips, tricks, and strategies behind increasing your cash flow. We connect with the experts who have defied conventional finance wisdom, who now earn more than they ever once thought possible. For those of you that are not yet at your full potential, are underemployed, or simply looking to grow their cash flow, then this podcast is for you. Welcome to the Finance and Markets Cashflow Hacking Podcast, and now to your host Casey Stubbs.
Casey Stubbs: 00:10
This is Casey Stubbs for the Cashflow Hacking Podcast and today our special guest is Serge Berger from The Steady Trader. Thank you for being on the show Serge.
Serge Berger: 01:15
Hey, thanks for having me on Casey. It's good to be here.
Casey Stubbs: 01:20
So we like to really dive down and help people generate extra revenue because you know, working a day job can be monotonous and it's really hard to get ahead because there's inflation. Things just keep going up and up and up and yet there's never enough money at the end of the paycheck to get everything that you want or sometimes even need. And so we've invited you on the show because you're an options trader and you've been able to generate enough revenue to make a living trading options and we want to hear some more about that. So how did you get involved in trading?
Serge Berger: 01:58
Well, I, you know, what I got started, this is really out of college. I was working, first I started working for Bloomberg and then very quickly moved over to JP Morgan became an investment banker and traded credits, credit derivatives, fund derivatives and all those kind of things and different desks, London, New York and Zurich. And then at some point I just said, you know what, that most companies. So I quit to different clients with me and that was pretty much, that's pretty much the story. Why I went on to hedge fund as well in between there but that's basically the story and you know, like I tell everyone, it's the biggest secret trick about the market is that you have to be patient, if you're impatient and desperate to make money on a daily basis, I don't care how good someone's marketing is. It's very, very difficult to make that happen in reality, you know, having worked on real big trading desk, I can tell you that it's kind of a myth that the everyday stuff.
Casey Stubbs: 03:04
Okay, so just on that first answer, I've got some, some more followup questions because I'm a little overwhelmed just by the first response because you said you worked at Bloomberg and you were a hedge fund trader and JP Morgan. So I'm thinking, okay, this is way out of my league. I'm just a regular guy. I must have to have like 10 years of education before I can even begin to do something like this.
Serge Berger: 03:28
That's a good point. I don't think you do, but I will say I do think for the most, for the most part, things get over simplified when it comes to trade. People think, you know, opening, open appropriate account can't make money. Now, if I were to tell you, if I were to meet you out on the driving range and the golf course and you've never played golf before, I want to give you a set of clubs and you've never taken the swing before. Now I'm telling you, Tiger Woods making the first, you gotta go beat him. You'd laugh at me, but people don't think it's unrealistic to beat the pros and trading broker accounts. It's the same thing. So a lot of people come into the training for the wrong reasons and so they get, they fall into the quick money stuff, the currency stuff but I don't want to bad mouth these things, but those things are difficult. Very, very difficult.
Casey Stubbs: 04:13
Okay so now, now we're really getting to something. So I like the golf analogy. It's really tough to be good and you got to be, like in trading, you actually have to be the best to make money, right? Or is that a myth also like it's a zero sum game, it's the pros versus the non pros and if you're gonna go in there, you're gonna get eaten alive.
Serge Berger: 04:34
Yeah, I don't necessarily think that's true, but I think it depends on what you do. So if your, if your plan is to make some money by trading and sitting there all day long and looking at currencies or futures or penny stocks or Crypto, whatever it is, you're gonna get eaten alive for the pros and the private machines. But there is a way to do this by being more relaxed about it, you know, and not not talking about having, buying stock and selling it 10 years later I'm talking about doing something in the middle there and actually just got back from visiting family office that I do a lot of work with for on sort of an advisory front. And so you know, we were having this discussion today. It's like the whole trading thing. They're not traders per se, but if they treat him really was the thing to get rich at. Don't you think there'll be a lot more really wealthy people successful, known for being day traders and there isn't and there's a reason for that. So I tell people there was a more relaxed approach about it, which we can get into.
Casey Stubbs: 05:32
Okay. Excellent. So I will definitely want to get into that. But before I do, I want to hit one more thing on your background here. So you were working for some big companies and then you said you grabbed a team and you just left. Now, was that to start a trading company where you already trading successfully and then you realize you didn't need to trade other funds so you just want to trade your own or, or how did that whole exodus happened?
Serge Berger: 05:58
Yeah, so what I do is I, I didn't take the team with me. I took a couple of clients with me that I was working with some of the direct, some of them indirectly and so what I did is I started doing advisory for them and a little bit of money management is mostly advisor just because it was easier to do that from a legal perspective, which is it's almost the same thing and the way it was set up and that's what I did. So you know, a lot of the stuff that we do for those people is really more looking for opportunities where we're going against consensus kind of things as opposed to chasing the tricks and it's just a totally different mindset, which is probably why it works.
Casey Stubbs: 06:42
Okay, so you're, it's a fundamental approach to the markets and more longterm approach for some high net worth clients?
Serge Berger: 06:49
It's not fundamental in nature. It's really more, you know, I'll give you an idea, like for example, if everyone's freaking out, you know spikes in the market, things go crazy. There's a lot of opportunity to make money if you take the other side of that instead of being a seller like the masses or the buyers it's just very simple analogy, right? and then there's ways to express that view. So instead of just buying a stock, you could do something in the options market very specifically. And that's really what the smart money does. There's some really large portfolios that talked to every single day. That's what they do for cashflow and we're talking about monthly and quarterly cash rest their main goal.
Casey Stubbs: 07:28
Okay. So now I want to back up a little bit and I wanna hit the just the average person, because you mentioned the golf analogy and that's a good analogy, but there's some things that don't really work with that. Like, you know, if you're gonna go play golf for fun, you can do that, but you can't really go in and just trade for fun because you're either gonna win or lose. You know, in golf you're gonna win or lose, but you're not gonna lose money. So you can be an amateur and be okay, but maybe not so much in trader. So if I'm the average guy and I just really, I'm slugging away at work guy or gal and I'm slugging away at work and I'm trying to get some extra money. Is trading something that I should look at? Yes or no?
Serge Berger: 08:11
Yes, it absolutely is. But again, I think the point is here it depends on what kind of trade and that's really the key because like you're saying, what happens a lot out there in the marketing spray compelling is that people make you believe that you can just kind of sit there and hit a serge berger options go to work and you've made money over 10 minutes. It's nonsense, you know, over time or you can have a good week or a good month, or a good year, but over time that's really. It doesn't go that way. So that's what you have to have the right approach to it. And I think, you know, like you're saying, it's a good point. That trading is very serious. You can't do it for fun, but a lot of what I see out there, even if you look your typical broker software, it looks like a video game, you know, and it's, it's kind of a purpose being developed that way a little bit at least. And so...
Casey Stubbs: 09:03
And they want you to trade. That's how they make money.
Serge B.: 09:09 Exactly. It is what it is, you know. But you have to be aware that you can't...I always tell people, like one of the major reasons people will make money in the market because you have to take it seriously. It's that simple, you know, and, and so that's, that's the bottom line.
Casey Stubbs: 09:21
Okay. All right. This is good. Now I want to get started. You say there's a way to do it. If I'm an amateur, how much time is it gonna take me to learn it? And what would you recommend? I'm sure there's a lot of different ways to do this successfully, but what would you recommend as a way to get started
Serge Berger: 09:44
In terms of the time requirement? I think, you know, I don't believe that you can get up and running in a day or two. It just doesn't work that way. You give yourself, you know, 3 to 6 months with ticket versus slow, but if you do that and you keep at it and you don't get sidetracked or else it's a ridiculous offers that promise you 8, you know, 100% returns or it's insane what they, where they fish out there, you know, then I think you'll be on your way. Honestly, the easiest thing to do is probably just going to the library and read a book on that three basic book on options. That's the number one thing, what I would do and then beyond that, you know, then there's obviously many, many more things you can do per together start basic and you have to understand that, you know, stops, don't just train randomly.
Serge Berger: 10:31
There is a reason or a method to the madness. So if you say, I'm just gonna train and breakout, so where people this is like technical or something, I'm just looking shorts. Well the reality is over time, you probably not gonna make money because the markets are more complex than that, but people get scared from that which fundamental now. It's not. Now I have to sit there all day long. No you don't. There's a few things you need to understand, right? and a lot of stuff out there is noise, but you have to send a few things. That's why I call it a top down approach. You look at what's happened big picture first and then you work yourself down to like individual stocks. Most people do the opposite, you know, they start looking at the bike test, great, good story, right. And then they buy a Tesla because whatever good growth that really the reason why it just doesn't make me bad example.
Casey Stubbs: 11:26
All right, so there's a couple things you need to know and you had talked about getting a book. Do you have a book that you recommend? Have you written a book? Do you have a training course on your website or something that people could check out? Anything like that?
Serge Berger: 11:42
Yeah sure. I mean, you can go through the studytrader.com and I have plenty of material there. And I don't know if maybe we can make ebooks available somehow through.
Casey Stubbs: 11:53
Well, whatever we do, I'll put a lot of information about you and your stuff in the show notes. And so all the links will be available, so if you have an ebook link, we'll put that in there. Okay so that's good. There's some good information available there. Have you written any books yet?
Serge Berger: 12:12
I haven't really...I've been featured in books, have written any book books because it hasn't really been. I think we're necessarily growth is gonna come from but it's on the radar. It's on the raft.
Casey Stubbs: 12:26
Okay. Well, when publish your book you're gonna come back and promote it. Okay, so what are that you said you like to look at the big picture and you know, there's other things that they need to know that you didn't really say what those things were. Is that too complicated to get into for beginning discussion or.
Serge Berger: 12:54
No, no, I'm happy to grow with you, I mean, you know, I listen to. Like I said, I mean I don't believe that we can get started. Like I said, in two days or two weeks. It's just nothing. Nothing's gonna happen to. You can't learn anything than worth getting good on two weeks. But for the most part, you know, you have to understand what moves markets and so you don't have to necessarily watch it all later, become an economist, but you have to understand, where we are in the economic cycle, you know, like right now, as we're recording this, we are 9 years into a raging bull market. Is it now time to start loading up and buying your positions on a medium along? Probably not, you know. So these are basic things you need to understand before you can really start making money in the markets. You have to understand, you know, which ones are the important parts of the work and then you know, it's not a, it's not a massive amount of things, but there are a few structured things. We always talk about the clients every single day courses and all that stuff. And those are the things that we look for every single day because the worst thing you can do is overstate welcome and you know, you can burn yourself that way.
Casey Stubbs: 13:59
Okay. So you use the bull market as an example. It's been a long bull market. It's been a tremendous run and it's been fantastic. Everybody's loving it. Life is good with the way that you trade is they're still great opportunities. If we start to see some crashes here and if we ended up in some kind of down cycle, would that be still good for trading or is that you have to take a break during that period?
Serge Berger: 14:26
I think that depends on your approach. I think for the most part, to me, I, the way we look at the market, there's opportunity in any environment. It really depends on the...I think it's important people to take advantage of both the upswings and downswings. In fact you make a lot of money when markets getting more volatile. The way we do it specifically using some options techniques, but I don't, you know, for your typical investor whose not really involved at the market, you know, for the most part is probably best to start making some sales as we start getting into the latter part of a bull market because what ends up happening if you're not involved with them, and I'm not talking about being involved there all day long, but unless you're someone who's lived in, it's difficult to be able to contextualize what's happening and the emotions going into it and you make mistakes.
Casey Stubbs: 15:18
Now, when you said sales, do you mean pull backs on price? cheaper positions like good stocks that have, have gone down in value. And then they're a good price point.
Serge Berger: 15:28
Yeah or like let's say a stock that's not risen, you know, who knows how long could the past eight years, whatever randoms can't think of random example, let's say I'm a, but I remember her name, her name to get called out on, but whatever, it doesn't matter, any stock, right? Let's say after 9 years of rallying, at some point it gets a little frothy. I mean those are historical, you know stock market cycles, so after 8, 7, 8, 9 year run, it's usually cancel frothy.
Casey Stubbs: 15:56
Okay. Now, what is your specific pro approach? You have talked about options and there's a way where you're not involved in the market all the time. You don't have to sit and day trade. What exactly is it that you do and would you recommend people getting started in a method like that?
Serge Berger: 16:15
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely think this is by far the state. I mean I'll point it this way. I started doing this specific strategy 17 years ago and on average we're making between 1 and 3 percent a month. That's on average, right, there are everyone's probably in flat month or a tiny downloads, but I don't know anything that comes even close to that. It's almost, it's almost crazy how consistently it works and so what we're doing at the very high level as we are selling options sellers or we do it in a very, very risk diverse race. So instead of buying options, we're selling options, but we're doing it in a very specific risk reverse way where you're giving yourself plenty of time and a lot of you know room to be wrong, and that's exactly what they go. All the wealth thing risks. I knew that that's what they do, you know a lot of people have been trying to teach you and sell off the rest of matter for the retail investor. And ultimately that leads to disaster almost every single time, ultimately, right. Maybe not that day or that week or that year, but ultimately, well, cause you have nine winners and it happens every single time. It was almost no exception. You do it in different way you get more conservative about it and it works like a charm. So the bottom line into to this, you just start thinking in terms of risks not in terms of reward, right? That's the big thing. Also people in the retail investor, at harsh for the most part is a gambler, not because they want to be, but, they are, you know.
Casey Stubbs: 17:45
Now when you were starting trading, did you have problems with the gamblers heart or was that something you never had to deal with?
Serge Berger: 17:51
No, no I, Oh God, you know I did Casey. We all do, I mean there's no.. I mean you have to be a robot if you don't, you know, if you don't get emotional about it, but what happens over time you get burned enough and then as long as you stick with it, you start to realize that, you know what, if I go that way too deep, I'm gonna get lost and I'm gonna fall off the cliff, but I can take the other way and you know, maybe not make as much money if it works out, but I'm not gonna fall off a cliff.
Casey Stubbs: 18:25
You know, now that you're talking, It just really make sense that the name of your website is the Steady Trader because you are steady, like you've been doing this for 17 years and honestly I think that's the best way is because slow and consistent. It's the whole turtle and the hare thing, right? The turtle's gonna win.
Serge Berger: 18:46
Oh no, and it is, you know what I always tell people. Listen, we're on average, I'll give you a simple. We're an average looking to go and were trading options right? For this, I call it an income strategy, which is exactly what it is. It really is an income strategies to cashflow strategy in Indian show cashflow, right? I mean it really is perfect for that. So we try to, on average make between let's say 10 to 12 percent per trade. People who trade options, they will laugh at that. They'll say like "oh we need to make 50, 60, 100, 300 percent returns on trades, on options, but they don't tell you is that everyone's only having one huge nasty loser that it all and that happens every single time.
Casey Stubbs: 18:46
Oh my, yeah.
Serge Berger: 19:22
So that's what happens, right? So that's why I prefer to make that out of 10 truth. Let's say 8 winners make 10% per trade. And even if I'm losing trade, we're not gonna lose more than 8 or 9% on average. So that's why it's so steady, it's not super sexy. You can sleep at night, you can go to work, it fits anyone's lifestyle, you know? So it's perfect for that, it's just that, you know, and I also got to tell people is the returns are not linear but they're exponential, right? So let's say you start with a thousand dollars, let's say you make 100 bucks the first month where you can there for the first two months, it doesn't matter, right? I have 1,100 bucks. So now all of a sudden you can start playing with more and I should say we're playing, but trading with more money.
Casey Stubbs: 19:22
Serge Berger: 20:15
It's a compound. That's why it's not linear, but you know, much more kind of like an upswing like that. So, you know, so when people think about these relatively small gains in terms of dollar routes, let's say they start with a thousand dollars, the thing with how do we do with that? We'll give it 3, 6 months and let's talk about it in a year or two and all of a sudden, you know, you quit your job, right? It happens much quicker than people think.
Casey Stubbs: 20:34
Well, you still got to be steady. And then to me it seems like it's really takes the patients. You mentioned patients on the front end, a thousand dollars is not a lot to start with and so it's going to take you some time if you have a goal where you need to make $3,000 a month to actually go full time, you know, that's gonna take some time to get there. So they'll have to really be patient.
Serge Berger: 21:00
They have to be patient. But it's like you're saying if the in here and steady wins the game. And so, but the big thing that we haven't talked about is our some people, unless you have context, you can't make good decisions, right? So it's pretty much anything in life. You know, let's say you go on a date, and like it's happened many times. I had turned a corner, literally Casey, and it's not going to work out several times. That's a bad dates back in the day. And so, and so you try, if you have more context on that, you just lost, right? You're gonna make dumb decisions. Maybe I'll text back. You don't want to take back to that decision. But if you have the comment, you said maybe she just, you know, whatever. I wasn't her type or whatever, and it's the same thing in trading, right? So if you have a bad trade, it doesn't necessarily mean that you made a bad decision, you know, you need to understand. That's why I'm telling you there's a big picture approach is important so he can rationalize what's happening. If you don't know why you losing in trade and you take it personal, you have no context. You know it's not gonna work.
Casey Stubbs: 22:04
I wanted to talk a little bit about when you mentioned your...this is a really safe method and you sell options and what you're doing when you're selling that, are you collecting a premium and they immediately pay you once you sell the options is that how that works. Can you explain that a little bit more?
Serge Berger: 22:21
Sure, sure. Let's you sell premium, you sell options, and a buying so when you buy an option, let's say you spend $100, right and I own the option. What we're doing is we're actually selling the option to sub the right to do something to someone else. And this will be collecting 100 bucks. Let's say. So now we keep that hundred dollars. My goal is to keep it about 30-40 percent of the hundred bucks for about $30 to $40. Most people who sell options, because I think like gamblers, they want to keep a 100%. They want to keep them 100 bucks. I don't care about a 100 bucks. I care about 20, 30, 40, 50 bucks over time. That's the key, you know? And so you do that in a very conservative way and again, I've been trading for 21 years. We've done that for and another strategy of course, but that one is, it really is quite amazing.
Casey Stubbs: 23:14
So you're just trying to keep a piece of that premium. You're not trying to keep the whole thing, you're just trying to keep a piece of it. Now, how many times are you doing this? You're doing this once a week. Twice a week. Three times a day. Like how many?
Serge Berger: 23:14
Once a week.
Casey Stubbs: 23:27
Okay. So if you do it once a week...
Serge Berger: 23:30
Yeah I mean but sometimes more. Depends. Like right now, honestly for this month I think we've done three trades in a boring month so far. It's now mid month, I think we've done two, two or three. It hasn't been that much. With an average about one, sometimes two a week, you know, and we keep them on for one to two weeks, but we don't have very, very conservative way. So we're not selling options that expire next week or even next month. It's just a, Casey, it's just, it's just what the wealthy people do that's what they do. So when you think about this kind of to your point of view, show the cash flow or the average millionaire and work between six and seven sources of income. I just had lunch with a guy, I'm in Europe right now so I'm ahead. I had lunch with a guy today and he's got a lot of money and he must have 12 or 13 sources of income and so that's what, when it gets you right, I mean that's.
Casey Stubbs: 24:27
And options is one of those sources?
Serge Berger: 24:27
Casey Stubbs: 24:27
Serge Berger: 24:27
Yeah, exactly. You know there's something else but this is really a very steady way of making money.
Casey Stubbs: 24:37
Yeah. And I agree with that. I think that's really smart. Way back in the day when I was first getting started, I read a book called the Richest Man in Babylon and he talks about saving 10% of your money, taking that 10% and putting it into something, whether it's a business, whether it's a stock, whether it's real estate, whatever it is, take that 10% throw it into something and then whatever you make on that didn't throw it back into something else, and then you have one stream. Then you have two streams and you just keep doing that over and over again. And it's the steady trader, right? It's the same concept.
Serge Berger: 25:14
Exactly. I mean, if you think, I'll give you a real example. My Dad, when he, I don't know, I was little, I don't know what age exactly, but anyways, I remember he had some very wealthy friends and they all sold their companies and all that they have was cash and it didn't really do much with it. There was another guy though in that group, he sold his business as well when he started doing a whole bunch of real estate. He actually kept part of the business, he wants to make you start doing this and that he now has like 15, 20 sources of income and guess whose richer, him or the other guys who sold their companies for much more than 30, 40 years ago or 20 years ago. So, you know it's that thing you can always think about the cash flow. I don't necessarily care if I have 10, $20,000,000 in the bank, I care about what I can make cash flow wise, you know, on a year over year basis, quarter of a quarter or month over month.
Casey Stubbs: 26:10
Yeah, that's very true. So just to kind of dive back into the strategy again, you talked about risk and I'm not real familiar with selling options. When you sell option, you get a premium. What is your risk on that trade?
Serge Berger: 26:28
Yeah, so I guess a little more technical. Basically know when the way we sell option spreads. So were gonna be selling one option and then we're gonna be buying an option against that for protection. It's very basic option stuff. It's just spread. You say your risk is basically the difference between the spread and subtracting the premiere tickets. So let's say you spread is $5 wide and you're taking $1 or $100, your maximum risk is the 5 or $500 minus 100. So imagine this is 400 bucks, but the way we do it, it is, I don't want to use the word impossible, but I will tell you over 17 years I've never even come close to losing the maximum, not even close in 80 to have 50% of it. So if $4 is a risk, I don't think I ever would have lost more than.
Casey Stubbs: 27:21
Okay. And so that is very safe.
Serge Berger: 27:27
Very very safe, yeah. Not the way we're structured, most people trade with options, it's win or lose. If they buy enough from 100 bucks where they sell them on, you know they're not gonna lose just a little bit. They're gonna lose a lot if they're wrong. You know, that's, and that's the difference and that's also the main wealthy people think is they don't think in terms of reward. They think it is a risk.
Casey Stubbs: 27:49
Right. Now, to me it's really heartbreaking and just emotionally painful. If you work really hard and you trade for six months and you're just following your strategy and you build your account up to like $200,000 and then you make a few mistakes, you blow it. Like, to me that's just like heart wrenching, like that's, that's really a painful experience.
Serge Berger: 28:09
Well, think about it. I mean, you know, we see this all the time and I would say the majority of retail clients that come to me that's been their experience over time, which is why we get a lot of people that have been burned, you know, which everyone ultimately gets burned. You know the other wise enough and it drives him it actually works or they quit. There's no real in between. So if you think about this from the perspective of you know, what does that do psychologically to you? So let's say you are in that situation and make money for six months and all of a sudden you lose everything with just maybe with the past six months, we're 67% or even 50%. Now the financial pain is one thing, but the psychological damage it does to people is almost incomprehensible. That's like going to your job for six months and you collect a paycheck every month and after six months your boss comes to you "by the way Casey, I need those 6 paychecks back." It's exactly like that. I mean, it's insane. The psychological down to people go through and that's why I don't like most things that people do out of their trading. That's what we do this because it's much, much safer instead.
Casey Stubbs: 29:21
Well, and like you said, with the paycheck, it really is like a paycheck because you really did work hard for that. You know, you did your work, you placed the trades, you earned the money, and then have to give it all back is really bad.
Serge Berger: 29:35
Exactly, exactly and that's the psychological damage is really, really, really painful, you know, and we see unfortunately the reality is a lot of people out there that are in retirement age, they try anything they can to get some more cash flow and that shouldn't even be offered out there and they're gonna go through those situations where they're playing with pension money, you know, when people quit their jobs thinking they can make a quick buck trading and it's just a if you don't use the right strategy really can be dangerous. That's why, I'm sorry, I prefer to be steady. You get burned enough and other wise pretty quick.
Casey Stubbs: 30:09
That's pretty smart. And so I'm just gonna do a recap for all the listeners because what we like to do is give them some actionable, actionable steps that they can take after listening to the show. So after listening to Serge, I would say the actionable steps that you can take if you want to make some extra money in trading options is you start doing your homework, you do your research, you go to the library and get a book. That would be an action step that you can take you and go to the steadytrader.com and get some Serge's material on options trading and videos. He's got lots of education on there. We're also gonna put a link below to get some of his ebooks and other materials that can help you get access to this education. So those are the two things: educate and then watch some videos, do some training. Then the third thing I would say is get yourself mentally prepared to think like the steady trader and to realize that you're not, it's not going to be ups and downs, but you're just gonna make slow gains and your slow, it's not get rich quick, but it's get rich slow and you're always gonna have that cashflow coming in and you can count on it. So those are the recaps we're gonna put that in the bullets is action items and I want to thank you Serge for coming on the show from the steadytrader.com. It was really good. We're gonna have all your contact info below. Thank you so much for coming.
Serge Berger: 31:33
Thank you, Casey. I appreciate it.
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