What You Need To Know To Become A Successful Day Trader | Cashflow Hacking Ep #14 Raman Gill
Raman Gill, founder of Trading With Venus, joins us on the podcast to discuss what it takes to make the transition to becoming a successful, fulltime day trader. As one of the few professional day traders who actually posts who earning statements online, Raman is arguably one of the most transparent, and informative instructors within the world of day trading today. Raman has helped hundreds of thousands of traders to learn the foundation of what it takes to trade professional through her Trading With Venus program, and now shares her insight with Casey to help you become a successful day trader as well.
Video Version Of The Podcast
People & Resources Mentioned
This is the Cashflow Hacking Podcast with Casey Stubbs where you will learn the tips, tricks, and strategies to increase your cashflow. And now to your host, Casey Stubbs.
Casey Stubbs: 00:21
This is Casey Stubbs with today's episode of cashflow hacking podcast from Finance and Markets, and today our special guest is Raman Gill from Trading with Venus. She is a full time trader and she teaches other people how to trade. She's been trading on and off for seven years. She's had a lot of ups and downs and she's experienced everything there is to experience in trading and we thought she'd be a perfect guest for today's show because she can show traders and non-traders people that are looking for extra cashflow. A how to get started involved with trading. Raman thanks for coming on the show today.
Raman Gill: 00:59
Thank you for having me Casey.
Casey Stubbs: 01:03
Trading. It's a very crazy thing to take part in. It can be stressful. It can be challenging. It can be fun. What got you involved in trading in the first place?
Raman Gill: 01:15
It's interesting. The reason I got involved in trading was because I wanted to generate extra cashflow. I used to have an IT consulting business and a friend of mine came and told me about trading forex and how somebody could help me. There was this company who used to trade people's funds and they, she said, "well, this is how you can generate 80 percent profits in a year". And I was like, astounded, 84% return on my investment and I thought that was crazy. So I started, so I gave them some money, but I also, I got intrigued enough to start delving into this trading a little bit more and I started learning more about it because I wanted to see what could produce such great returns.
Casey Stubbs: 01:58
Okay. And you started out trading. You were drawn by the extra money, 84% returns. That's really high. I'd hear people say that 10 percent is a good year. So when you start that out and did you end up achieving your goal and did you hit 84% return when you started trading?
Raman Gill: 02:15
It was interesting. It's like a normal entrepreneur's journey, right? So first we are driven by the easy money. So 84% was awesome. My husband said don't do it, but you know, 84% with a greater return and I, I didn't, it looks, it looked great. I put like $5,000 and then I saw the statements and every month I would be getting this return, so I put another 5,000, $10,000 in this investment. And then the company got audited by SCC because they weren't doing it completely the right way. They were not following all the rules and they went under and so did my investment. So I lost the principal and the returns that I was promised. But it got me started on a journey of trading. So that was where, I've kind of made back the money.
Casey Stubbs: 03:02
Okay. So then this, you were not trading yourself. This was a fund that was doing the trading for you and it ended up going under?
Raman Gill: 03:02 Correct. Yeah.
Casey Stubbs: 03:11
Okay. Now if that's your first experience in trading, didn't that really wreck you in the mind? Like you just lost $10,000? Like how did you recover from that?
Raman Gill: 03:21
Actually, I started learning about trading because if the investment is too good to be true to, I needed to know exactly what they were doing, so I didn't want to just give them money so I kind of tested the waters with a pint that. So it went on for months and in, during that time period I started looking at learning how to trade. It's like, somebody comes to you with a real estate investment in this, say you can flip this house and make lots of money, but I wanted to go learn. I didn't want to just be a joint venture partner. I wanted me to go learn how to do this on my own. So I really understood the business and that's what got me started. So I was seeing the returns on that statement, which I never took out. It was this ongoing returns on paper but it got me intrigued enough to get started. So I started taking courses. I opened a demo account that started trading on the side while I was running my IT consulting business. So, so it was, it was a bit of a journey to get there before I lock the money.
Casey Stubbs: 04:16
Right. And the fact that you were learning and educating yourself on the side, that really does show that you have that entrepreneurial spirit. Because in my experience, that's how entrepreneurs operate. They research things. They don't just take what people say, you know, you hear traders, they'll say, "OK, you're going to make this money. You make that money", but really you should do your own research. You should do your due diligence. You shouldn't just take people's word for whatever they say, but you need to find out the truth for yourself.
Raman Gill: 04:46
Yeah, I woul say, I was born an entrepreneur. I am, I'm a, like I said, I had an IT consulting business. Now I'm a trader. I did work for other people in the middle and in the beginning, but it was a, I don't think I'm a good employee. I think I'm a better trader than I'm an employee. Even though I've had some great, like the journey has been great even as an employee, but I, I appreciate the entrepreneurs and the amount of work that it takes to become a successful entrepreneur.
Casey Stubbs: 05:13
So I want to go back now again to losing that $10,000. Like how did that feel? Losing that, that money, because that's, that's a lot of money, right?
Raman Gill: 05:30
Yes and it sucks and it really does. It was hard. I didn't want to tell my husband that I have lost the money because he told me not to put the money in. So I didn't tell him until much later, but it, at first I was down in the dumps about it and then slowly I thought to myself, well, good thing because these had been learning about it, so now I can go create that money for myself again. So I kind of went focus after I got out of the whole negativity and started focusing on rebuilding from there. But doing it myself as opposed to just trying to make it the easy way.
Casey Stubbs: 06:07
Okay, so like this question, you didn't tell your husband, but when you finally told him, how did he respond?
Raman Gill: 06:17
Oh he said, "I told you so". But then he also knows that I'm a very strong headed in my commitment, in the sense that I, I really persevere. I found that the short-term thinking has never really worked for me. It's always been the long-term game that has really worked. So if I look at any of the things that I have accomplished in my life like starting from coming to Canada as an immigrant where I didn't have anything to you know being in the place that I am. It's always been the long-term gain. The short term hasn't worked so, so he knew that I can persevere and I can rebuild it back. And of course, I mean I told him over a glass of wine, so that did help.
Casey Stubbs: 07:05
Okay, well, you also mentioned something that I didn't know about you that I want to ask. You said you were an immigrant from Canada. When did you move to Canada and where did you come from?
Raman Gill: 07:13
So I grew up in India. I moved to Canada 20 years ago and I remember the time when..so I came with my family, my parents sponsored us. My Dad was an engineer and he worked on cargo ships, so he's traveled the world and he thought it would be better for us to be in a different part of the world, US or Canada and Canada one just because we had some relatives here and we thought it'd be, he thought it will be easier. I of course didn't want to move because I had all my friends there. Everybody that I knew was there, everything that I knew was there, so it was a bit of a hard transition but it was..it's kind of worked out really well, so I'm glad they decided to take the step.
Casey Stubbs: 08:02
Yeah, it can be very challenging, but I think it's pretty cool that if someone's willing to leave everything behind, it's kind of like a long term play, right? You're moving ahead and you're leaving everything behind for a better future. That takes a lot of courage to make a move like that.
Raman Gill: 08:17
It does, yeah.
Casey Stubbs: 08:21
Okay, well, again now we're gonna go all the way back again to when you lost that $10,000. How was it when you started to actually trade for yourself after that for the first time?
Raman Gill: 08:31
When I first started trading, I started small. I started first with the demo trading so I could practice my trading and then I started with a small account that started like $200 as practice money. This is a throwaway money. I'm just participating in the market so I can learn the market. And then I, once I saw that, I could build some consistency in my trading, I moved it up to $2,000 I think it was. And then I sort of grew my account from there so I slowly up-leveled myself as I went, as opposed to jumping all in like I did last time around.
Casey Stubbs: 09:09
And you were learning and researching on your own on how to trade. Was there something specific in your education that really stood out to you where you discover a method that really works well in the markets?
Raman Gill: 09:24
In my, in my trading education you mean?
Casey Stubbs: 09:28
Yeah, as you were learning how to trade on your own. Yes.
Raman Gill: 09:31
I tried many different ways and I think the trading, just like anything else, just like being an entrepreneur, you have to find something that works for you. So I try different strategies and again, I tried taking the easy way out where I thought, okay, I'll have a holy grail system that will work, just make me money, but all systems have their, their ups and downs. So I have what I have come to in the end. It's just price action trading. I stripped all the indicators, everything else. I just like to look at price. I spend a lot of time or have spent a lot of time in front of screens. So I studied price action and then of course I have an MDA. So the economic sides fundamentals doesn't hurt, that supports it as well.
Casey Stubbs: 10:18
What would you say to someone who is in your, let's say when you were first trying, you first found out about the trading. You first found out about 85% returns. If someone listening to this show or watching the show today found out that there was a possibility for them to make money and trading, what would your advice be to them?
Raman Gill: 10:38
I would say it is possible. So right now I'm sitting at about 80% of return of the year. So it is possible and I'm posting my statements on the Youtube channel and so somebody wants to follow the journey they can. So it is possible. However, it takes, it takes a lot of work. So be prepared to if you want insane results you have to be willing to put in some of study and like an ongoing practice into it as well. It takes time and effort and time being the component that a lot of times that we tried to rush and that's where I think if you could just start thinking longer term and wait for those returns to come to us. I think that's where a lot of people make the mistake thinking that we can get those returns today. They are possible but it takes some time.
Casey Stubbs: 11:27
So you think that a great trading mindset probably in life in general is to really not look for short term games, but to go for long-term success?
Raman Gill: 11:41
That's correct. So any, anything from like my education when I first started, I took a diploma. I started working. I made the returns from that, the money that I saved then I went and did my bachelor's, then came and worked some more, then went and did my MBA so it's a long game. So yeah, you need to have a plan as to what you're going to do to build wealth or with anything and then just take a small step, make the profits then go again and again. So this is, this is a sort of rinse and repeat type of practice.
Casey Stubbs: 12:12
I agree with your comment on a long-term. However, I do also really enjoy short term gains as well. So I kind of think that I like to say, okay, well how can I maximize this thing and get as much out of it as I can with still keeping a long term mindset. Not like, okay, it didn't work, I'm going to quit. But really applying methods, that's why, you know, I named the show after the term growth hacking, which is, which is really popular right now. It's techniques and strategies to rapidly increase your growth as fast as possible. Is it possible to do that in trading? And I'm not trying to get people to have these crazy ideas and do stupid stuff, but is it possible to apply those techniques for trading growth?
Raman Gill: 13:02
It's interesting that you bring that up because that's exactly what I'm trying to do at the moment, the blueprint that I'm developing for traders to become successful quickly and a lot of it. So I am a, I am growth hacking as well, but from a trading perspective, so select and set the returns are possible but what do you have to do is, you have to condense the amount of learning into a shorter period of time and you have to get that repetition and so, a person can take 20 years to become successful. But if you crunch that in a squeeze that in a shorter period of time, it is possible. Like, you could do that in a much smaller, shorter period of time, for sure. So I'm, I'm with you on that. I'm trying to growth hack, are trying to teach the blueprint to other traders on how to do that.
Casey Stubbs: 13:48
So what was the toughest challenge that you've come across so far in your trading career?
Raman Gill: 13:55
The mindset. Mindset is the hardest one. It's when you are on winning spree, which you tend to get on for periods of time, you become euphoric. Everything is great. You feel invincible. It's like you can't lose and you're making those big big paychecks every days. I'm a day trader and that's another way to hack it. You, instead of doing long-term go short term and but the problem..so you can, you can condense it all. And sorry, I totally lost track of what I was going...
Casey Stubbs: 14:35
While you were saying that your biggest challenge was trading mindset.
Raman Gill: 14:40
About training mindset. So this is a psychology stuff and I'm, I'm looking at like athletes and bringing their stuff in here as well. So with traders, a lot of times fear and greed are the two factors that play a big role in our mindset. And that's, that's same thing with the, with any kind of returns that we're looking for in any industry. We get, when we are doing really well, we get very euphoric and we skew it one way when we are not getting the returns that are putting the effort in, but we're not getting the returns and we get really down in the dumps about it. What we don't realize is during those hard times when we have just working, working, working and not seeing the returns, it's building. It's like the seed that germinating. It's growing inside, but we can't see anything because it has to come out of the, it's shell before it can become a tree on a plant and we forget about that. So we have to just keep that in mind when the times are good and the tree is giving the fruit, take the fruit and save some for the future because they will be tough times. There will be winter and we need to be aware of that. So we go through these cycles in every industry and every type of investment where there are great times and there are times that are not great. So take the fruit when everything is going, but don't get too euphoric about it. Save some for hard times and know that hard times are coming. But you have prepared for it. So that's the strategy that I have.
Casey Stubbs: 16:01
I think that's a really good analogy. Don't eat all of your fruit at one time just because it's blooming like crazy, that's a really good analogy. How have you personally been able to get over a bad spell mentally. Like is there any time that you were just really down and you really had a struggle getting over it?
Raman Gill: 16:20
I have a lot of those times and all different walks of my life, pretty much everything that I had done has been through a cycle, like a cycling thing. Right? So you, you start off with tough times and then you do well and then you kind of go through that cycle again. So my strategy is and I'm, I'm becoming better at coming out of those time periods and that's what I'm trying to teach as well of people how to do that. So my biggest thing is first having a plan, right? so knowing a friend that there will be tough times. So that's just acknowledging it and being aware of it, is one thing. Secondly, "this too shall pass". That's a quote that I always keep in mind. This too shall pass just like the good times and bad times as well. And third is having a strategy to go about getting out of those tough times. So we know they're coming. So what can we do about it? One, have a buddy system or some sort of an accountability partner that you can go to that you can be completely, completely be honest about what's going on with you, right? A lot of times we project things, we have this persona that we create for others because we all want to look good, but then when things are not going so well, you can't go announce it to the world all the time, but you still need to take care of yourself. So, one, have a partner. That's one thing that you can be completely honest with that you have shared your plan with and that person will then talk to you just kind of getting that coaching and saying, okay, you know, what, what do you need to do? I'm not not somebody beating up on you, but seeing because we do that to ourselves, right?
Raman Gill: 17:58
If something goes wrong, we beat ourselves up. That's the first thing that happens to me. So I go to somebody and say, you know what, this is what happened and the questions that, some of the questions that person will ask, what are you going to do about it now? Right? And then have a plan to get out of it. I find things like meditation and stuff like that that's, that don't nobody wants to do. But those are some of the things that are good important to do, and that doesn't have to be sitting there meditating. It could be playing the sport, going for a walk or something like that. Things that you do that outside of your grind that fill your cup up so that you have the capacity to be able to go at it again when everything's kind of falling apart. So you can be grateful for something that is going well in your life.
Casey Stubbs: 18:46
I think that's really good sound advice for people is to have someone to talk to. It's hard to find someone that you can really be open with and to share the difficult times because it's really hard to share those things anyways. Especially if you mess up, like you said, you're beating yourself up, but you're also afraid to tell someone about it because it hurts and you don't want to be exposed. And so finding that person is a really big deal. I think that's really good advice.
Raman Gill: 19:13
Yeah, it is important. I find to do that, just having somebody in your corner. Spouses are kind of nice to, you know, they play an important role in that and, but then you have to coach them because my husband, he just wants to jump to the rescue. He wants to just tell me what to do. That's not the point of it. I know what to do. It's just that, at the moment I just need that little pick me up. So I'm kind of having to maybe some friends that are, you can have that heart to heart with or a spouse or somebody like that or you know, just just going over a walk and just talking to yourself. I find somebody, sometimes.
Casey Stubbs: 19:54
Well then everyone thinks you're crazy in the, you know, throughout the sidewalk, they're like, look at that crazy woman.
Raman Gill: 20:03
That's why you'd take one of these, right? You have your headset so they think you're talking on the phone when you're not, just talking to yourself.
Casey Stubbs: 20:10
There you go. No, I, I think that's, I mean that's actually not crazy. I think people do need to talk to themselves. So I've been following your Youtube channel for many years as a matter of fact, and I noticed that you're doing this thing now called the turning pro challenge. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Raman Gill: 20:28
Yes, so the turning pro challenge came out of the two different things and one was one of the questions that I get asked all the time is how I want to quit my day job because either the 95 is not for me or if I'm bored of this, I want to do something different but I still want to earn the income from it but have a better lifestyle. So I trade for that quarter. I worked for less amount of time and have more free time. And so that was the one thing. So however, a lot of times in my industry, in the trading world, we are given strategies and technical strategies that you can implement, but that's just one way of doing it. So for example, let's say as an entrepreneur you want to sell something on Amazon so you know how to do that. But what happens when nobody's buying? But what do you do? How do you psych yourself up to keep on going or when you know your product has to be deterrent, you're getting all this refunds because it sucks, what do you do? Because it got made in China and you didn't really control, these issues that we've come up with. So those are the combination of the two things. One, how do you then become. So the technical strategy is not enough during those times. You need to have something else to fall back on. What else needs to be in place in order to make that transition? So that's what I'm trying to teach people. If you want to become a successful full time trader, how would you do that? How do you make that journey and how do you make that transition so that you can do that?
Raman Gill: 21:52
And another thing was everybody kept asking why don't you post some real results on online? and not very many people do that. And in the trading world they will talk about a system and everything else. And a lot of times you look at their results to take a copy of that one account you don't even know whether that's really a real account or demo account and they will post those results like two days of trading. Well, anybody can win in two days, but if you're gonna make a career out of it, how do you win in the long term and still keep producing those results. So those are the two things people asking. Well, show some real results if you're gonna talk the talk, let's see you walk the walk. So I thought, okay, most people don't have a large account to start with. So I decided to start with a small account, $3,500. So I thought that's a reasonable size account that anybody can come up with a $3,500 and not a large account and now we will grow it over time and then turn it into an account that you can actually make a full-time income from. So that's the, that's the journey that I'm on with that. And I created some resources for other people that go beyond just the strategy. So they can follow the journey along with me and I post results every week.
Casey Stubbs: 23:02
I think that's really helpful for traders because you're not just giving them one component, you're actually showing them right in front of them the entire process to go from a beginner to professional and you're including every single element. I think that's really valuable. I wanted to ask one question though, when you begin to actually post live results and to show it to people, did you have any like resistance inside of you of doing that? Like any fear or any. Because not a lot of people don't do it. A lot of people because they're not successful, but even successful people don't do it because they're afraid. And so did you have any issues with that?
Raman Gill: 23:40
I did and I still do. To tell you the truth, I, it was hard because you are opening yourself. You're being so vulnerable and a lot of times you know, even when you're trying to do the right thing, there are people who are just haters, you know, and they will just hate on you no matter what you do. You give everything and yet they'll hate on it. They'll find something, something to hit on, so it is hard and also it messes up your game. Right? When somebody is looking up, looking at your screen over your shoulder. It throws you off your game. It's like all of a sudden instead of practicing in your backyard, now you're going and playing in the tournament and so are you know scouts. When somebody is following you, you're now, you have an audience and you have to, you have to do it right all the time and we're not perfect, so the mistakes get exaggerated and I did that.
Raman Gill: 24:33
I was having a great run and then I made one mistake and I'm like, oh my God. Now everybody's gonna judge me for doing this stupid thing because I know better. I shouldn't do it, and yet I did, and then trying to fix that mistake I made more and more and more so you can go down this downward spiral all because you're so afraid of being judged and really if under any normal circumstances I would have said, you know what? I'll just take this and I'll walk away and we'll come back another day, but when, when you're up there for you know, everybody's looking at you, watching you, it is hard, but I think it's very rewarding in the end because if you are going to, it pushes you to the next level and now so I know, okay, I don't want to make that mistake and yet I will make that mistake again. But now I know how to shift. So you start making these, it's accountability at its best. So you start making this small shifts that are minuscule while you're doing it. But I think when you compound it or over the course of a year, 2 years, 5 years, it will change the game. So that's where you have to be mentally tough and then psych yourself up, but keep on doing it.
Trading With Venus Youtube
Casey Stubbs: 25:45
Yeah. I really think that it is difficult because you, you talk about turning pro. Well in this sense you really are like a professional trader because you've got all eyes on you just like in as an athlete. So that really is takes it up a whole another level and I actually saw the, the YouTube video where you told everyone how you made all these mistakes and you said I screwed up. And I was very impressed that you had the courage to address your mistakes like that in front of everybody. I really got to commend you on that. That was just a great job. I mean it was hard but not too many people would do that. So I have to commend you on that. Great job!
Raman Gill: 26:26
Thank you. And I think same thing applies to any investment as well. The first time I made an investment in myself, so I decided to take a course of IT diploma. It was $12,000 and I was working as a waitress. Right? Everybody, everybody in my friend circles said that was the stupidest, stupidest thing to do. I did not have the $12,000. I was new to Canada. I didn't have any, I didn't even have a credit card that I could, you know, if I ran out of money that I could get a loan from beside to go apply for a loan. I had to take a huge leap of faith. So anytime we make a new investment, we have to make this leap of faith where everybody around us tells us it's gonna, how it's gonna fail, how they have seen someone else do the same thing and they're failed. So I did that with education. When I started doing real estate investments, I had the same thing. When I started doing trading, It was the same thing. When I started my IT business, that was the same thing. But I think at some point you have to say, let's just do it. Let's see how it goes. And, you know, if it fails, then well you've learned a lesson.
Trading With Venus Reviews
Casey Stubbs: 27:33
Yeah, it gives other people courage to and help them do the right thing and shows people that real professional traders make mistakes. I think it was a really good thing. So we're coming towards an end. Thanks for your time. Can you tell everybody what would be the best way to learn about what you're doing and how to get in touch with you and just all of your contact information?
Raman Gill: 28:07
For sure you can reach me, my website is tradingwithvenus.com, so that's, that's the website and then I have a YouTube channel if you want to watch me with the turning pro challenge and see how the journey goes, or learn more about forex news sites. You can go to Trading with Venus is the name of my YouTube channel as well. And then I have a podcast about trading and I'm doing a lot of performance growth hacking, essentially a lot of performance type stuff on that which is a little bit more general as well, not just for trading, so that's called Trading with Venus podcast. So those are the best ways to get a hold of me.
Casey Stubbs: 28:32
Excellent. And we'll put all of those resources in the notes and will put that below in the episode. All right, well thank you so much for being on the show today.
Raman Gill: 28:44
Thank you Casey for having me. It's been wonderful chatting with you.
Thank you for listening to the Cashflow Hacking Podcast. If you want to get the show notes, just visit our podcast page at financeandmarkets.com.